Part 5: Just Desserts for Black Males
This is Part 5 in an undetermined number of posts in this blog’s special coverage of THE CLEVELAND INCIDENT.
Given: If the female in this incident had behaved exactly the same way with Mr. Hughes, the black bus driver, and she had been ANYTHING besides black, no punch would have been thrown.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
It has been asked: “So one ignorant Black male attempts to knock out a Black female who spit upon and hit him now makes all Black males worthy of mistreatment? Where is the logic in that?”
Here is the logic:
First, I did not say that black males deserve to be injured by enforcement officials. I said that, COLLECTIVELY, they do not deserve to have it halted. I.e., that they neither deserve it nor are undeserving. In a contest that has no just outcome, no one deserves to win. That is one of the reasons that locker room prayers before football games is illogical.
Second, the phenomenon that is the Cleveland Incident is not about ONE black male. Of those black males who even registered a response, over 95%,simply COULD NOT bring themselves to say — without equivocation and/or qualifications—that this one black male SHOULD NOT have upper-cut this female who was almost 1001b smaller than him in a situation in which he was in no imminent danger from her by using less force. Further, about this same number cheered it and were thrilled by it. Clearly, black males, as a collective, do not have the correct intent towards the treatment of black females.
As long as one knowingly and persistently mistreats one or more other persons in some category to which he/she does not belong, he/she demonstrates that he/she does not believe in justice. Such persons, when suffering injury, are not victims of oppression but are losers in a contest for power whose purpose is not justice. No persons deserve to win any contest. Contests have winners and losers. That’s all.
Black males may win or lose in the contest against white people but, as a collective, black males do not yet deserve to win. Only those whose intent is justice deserve to prevail. I want black males to deserve to prevail. And, I believe that WHEN they deserve to prevail, they WILL. Then, we can all eat at that table of just desserts…And, LIKE it.
It’s taken 500+ years, I think, just to get back to where I believe the breach in black people’s immunity to assault from others started. Let’s fix it this time.
_______________________________________________________________________
Point of clarification: Mr. Hughes, the driver, did not state on the police report that the female passenger, Ms. Lane hit him. Neither does the video show that.
Acknowledgements: Sonny, Imara, Kushite Prince, M1, Tohran, and Garren, Cmptr Whiz and any others who are on the correct side of this thing that I have missed or don’t know, “collective” does not mean YOU individually, of course.
Cree7's Blog 
November 5, 2012 at 1:24 pm
[…] my similar position has been stated on this blog in the piece, Part 5: Just Desserts for Black Males, I wish to associate myself with those remark. I do hope that black males, collectively, give me a […]
October 24, 2012 at 8:31 pm
Not only is hers nothing like ours, that anti-human female contributes big-time to ours.
October 24, 2012 at 4:36 pm
“I said before let them have their war on women. Lets end our issues with each other.”
@m1: Great defensive move on the chessboard…Checkmate!
Minimize the conflict.
RW might be catching hell, but her hell ain’t nothing like ours (Black woman/Black men).
October 24, 2012 at 1:43 pm
M1, that will make a good next post. Thanks!!
October 24, 2012 at 11:01 am
To alphax2k there is a gender war on the other side( racist man and woman) . Its been called “the war on women “for 7plus months. The whole firestorm over documented racist rush Limbaugh calling a white femme a slut and prostitute turned into a economic sanction against rush, a turnaround on bill maher calling Palin a dumb t–t and c–t. ,who’s the greater victim of misogyny white(liberal)or white(conservative)women, a battle on contraception,abortion, comments on rape, a call from Pres Obama, etc. I found the whole thing humorous. Some black people took sides,I hope nobody who follows this blog took a side. I said before let them have their war on women. Lets end our issues with each other.
October 23, 2012 at 9:36 pm
I appreciate the encouraging feedback, blackgoddess0!! So glad you find it constructive. Thank you so much for sharing such wonderful resources and your lucid thoughts as well.
October 23, 2012 at 8:18 pm
Cree 7 this is a wonderful and constructive blog. I need to listen to your radio show. I’m inspired, motivated and more informed because of your blog. Thank you for your time and energy.
October 23, 2012 at 8:10 pm
Kushnite Prince. Here’s another one for you. It’s called The First Book of the Black Goddess by Matomah Alesha. “The true warrior is a warrior of divine love, And her mighty sword is the golden rod of truth.” I cherish this book, for it gives you a complete understanding of the Great Mother and Father cosmology as it appears in old Kushitic civilizations. This book can help us non-whites realize that “devotion to the dvine Mother is what is truly needed to grow and evolve. For she (the blackness, the unknown, nada, silence…death). “For She is what is truly feared in the modern (RWS) world. She is, however, the great reward, the heaven etc. You should read this book, so you’ll be devoted to Justice. This book is good for your heart. Happy reading.. Freedom, Justice, Love and Happiness now!
October 23, 2012 at 6:02 pm
CREE: “I haven’t heard a single black female, anywhere say that what Ms. Lane did on that bus was not wrong or even fail to say it was wrong. But, overwhelming, black males say that the black male was not wrong. And, THAT’S the problem these posts are endeavoring to address.”
Exactly. And a H-U-G-E problem it is.
Without a doubt, the furious blending of his obvious rage, uncontrolled emotions, indignation, shame and public embarrassment, all boiling to its maximum point within seconds could have resulted in her death. Then what? Think of the outcome of that type of situation…the onslaught of super-hyped, redundant SOR media coverage, ad infinitum…and the added psychological burden it would have on the more conscientious, mature Black men who just happen to make a living as bus drivers….You see where all of this is going? I wonder how funny Ms. Lane’s recorded death would have been to the onlookers on the bus, had it turned out that way…
Thanks for your compliments, but, hands down, it is you who deserve the compliments and credit for all of the excellent work you’ve done and continue to do. You bring it Sister, and in a very professional way. I don’t always agree with your sentiments but I still respect them.
October 23, 2012 at 5:34 pm
@Cree
ebnflowz: “What some Black men find repulsive about some Black women is their genuine buy in to the system that suppresses all of us. The Black man has many issues, problems, and deficiencies to be sure but for the awake thinking ones who ultimately want to see Black people rise to a better condition I don’t think these men would want to buy into a suppressive system even though they act against themselves at times through ignorance, force and circumstance”
In answering questions 3 and 4 ebnflowz invokes the Willie Lynch Letter to brand BW as racial traitors. I stated earlier that a lot of BM deeply believe in this treason narrative. This narrative in not constructive and does nothing to replace WS with justice. It gives clearance to worship at the altar of white femininity and feel justified in doing so.
ebnflowz: “ Since the Black man seems to be the ultimate target of white supremacy he is not directly offered much kool-aid to drink.”
Believing that they are the biggest victims in the known universe allows BM to ignore the suffering of BW with a clear conscience.
The future looks like this:
Black man to black woman,
“Imhotep my Nubian goddess”.
Black woman,
shakes head and thinks to herself, “ the brotherhood needs a new con game because no one is falling the that one anymore”.
October 23, 2012 at 4:31 pm
Oh, and, amilikar, I agree with everything you said.
October 23, 2012 at 4:25 pm
Thank you for your reasoned and thoughtful comments on this matter, amilikar. Sincerely. It’s been awhile since we heard from your here. Hope we hear from you again soon.
I haven’t heard a single black female, anywhere say that what Ms. Lane did on that bus was not wrong or even fail to say it. But, overwhelming, black males say that the black male was not wrong. And, THAT’S the problem these posts are endeavoring to address.
October 23, 2012 at 3:56 pm
This discussion reminds me of watching a thermometer’s mercury rise from room temperature to 120 degrees, before the threads of our commonalities and shared pains begins to cool both genders.
This video, which is thoroughly repulsive, shameful and disgusting to look at, is also a divisive tool that is used to “add fuel to the fire”: the on-going,contentious and sometimes overly-sensationalized relationships of today’s Black man and Black woman. A finely-tuned, custom-made “divide-and-conquer” technique that cuts into our subconscious like the surgical incision of a scalpel. The assaults by both individuals in the video are wrong. Period. No matter how the outcome of their actions are justified or explained by either side. It is a real-life example of the extreme importance of why we have to treat and consider each other more acutely with genuine respect and honor within the system of which we both genders exist BEFORE such depressing events take place. I truly feel hurt by both individuals’ actions, as well share the shame, anger and pain of their unfortunate display of ignorance. Yes, I called it ignorance, because in hindsight, there was a better way to resolve this situation. How many times has it been stated that it is Black people who need to learn the art of conflict resolution? I’m certain that many of us have experienced similar engagements with similar results before we were educated by the likes of Dr. Welsing and Mr. Fuller.
On the issue of the abuse of Black women by Black men, of which there is absolutely no excuse, however justified, reasoned or referenced from a historical perspective, of course it does exist, in many forms. In some cases, Black women abuse Black men. Obviously, it has had a detrimental effect on both of our struggles within this cocoon called SOR. It is spiritually crippling and further erodes any hope we have of re-establishing our strengths in healthy and stable relationships, genuine and unconditional love. What’s most important to me is the sanity of Black women and Black men, now and in the future, for once our sanity is gone, we are truly done. No more fighting or explaining or reasoning or hoping or speculating or blaming. Let’s face it: under the current societal circumstances, the Black man needs the Black woman and the Black woman needs the Black man. Any counter-arguments against this purely simplistic truth is null and void. She is a human being as well as he is, and the balance that is created with a genuine, solidified love for each other is what strengthens both. We all need strength from external sources and positive interactivity to help us cope with this nine-tentacled octopus called the system of racism. Above all, we all are human beings who have dire physical, spiritual and emotional needs that must be fulfilled to help us grow as The Creator intended. Let’s stop fooling ourselves. Everybody wants to be loved, respected and treated as a human being.
This is the essence of that thing called “justice”.
Just because the SOR labels us with adolescent nomenclatures does not mean we can’t be who we truly are: adults. As Dr. Welsing has stated, we must first recognize who we truly are and what we truly are: the parents of life on Earth and act accordingly. Therefore, to begin to know myself, I begin with myself, ensuring that the Black woman I love, I need and I am to protect (grandmother, mother, sister, wife, daughter, granddaughter, niece, etc.) is treated with complementary respect, consideration, honor and equality. As ebnflowz has correctly stated: “All things being equal I believe most Black men in their right state of mind would choose to be with a good Black woman any time of the day.” ‘Nuff said! What healthy, heterosexual Black man would not want ” a good Black woman” with whom to share this existence within his lifetime? Black men are men. “Abusive” Black men are not men. They are confused individuals. Black men WANT to protect Black women. Every Black man is not out to put Black women down, abuse them, berate them or inflict any other unnecessary, belittling, demeaning injustice upon them. Real men give their ultimate possession, their lives, for their women, their families and their beliefs. That’s our duty as men. It doesn’t make us weak; it doesn’t make us gullible fools; it makes us men. Although I am not a perfect man nor a perfect human being, there are limitations to my imperfections that forbid me to inflict further pain upon the very person of which I am well learned. We know the uncommon and extraordinary history of the Black woman. Likewise, her complementary attributes toward the Black man is what creates the balance we both need to strengthen our immunity and counter-racist defenses against the imposing SOR. This is why such divisive methodologies were/are used to keep us at each others’ throat, combatant, nasty and contentious toward each other. If we can’t see beyond this and don’t treat each other in the correct manner as we should, with a thorough understanding of what we are up against, as two of the most targeted individuals on this planet, who will???????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There isn’t much we can do about the past, and dwelling upon it creates IMO a certain level of mild insanity. However, we can learn from it by taking what worked (group economics, solid family structures, entrepreneurship) and use those components and defense mechanisms toward building a framework from preventing such events from happening again.
How can we do this, you might say, with so much and so many that are not hearing or reading this type of information for their brain-computer? We do it by beginning with ourselves.
* Stop letting outside forces and negative influences originating
from the SOR take a commanding role in our subconscious and
conscious behavior.
* Thinking before we re-act irrationally and emotionally to an
undesirable situation (clearly one of the most devastating
weaknesses of us all).
* Make a sincere, concentrated and relentless effort upon
improving “self” before even beginning to think about blaming
others for the same personal deficits.
* Stop fighting with each other.
* Stop using profanity toward one another.
* Stop calling each other out of their respectful names.
* Stop squabbling with each other over insignificant matters,
of which whose origins we have absolutely nothing to do with.
* Stop being discourteous to each other.
Brothers and Sisters, these are the inefficiencies into which we ALL (including myself) need to put significant amounts of time in improving before thinking about moving any piece on the chessboard.
Not just the Black woman.
Not just the Black man.
Everyone.
Minimize the conflict.
October 23, 2012 at 12:56 pm
You doing your duty as you’ve just related is all the thanks I need. It’s the ONLY thanks I need. Yes, it is going to be an uphill battle. But, Hannibal took his troops over the Alps on elephants. So, we got this.
October 23, 2012 at 11:21 am
@Cree Thanks a lot. Do you know how much heat I’ve taken for those statements.lol I even got into a debate with a good friend of mine about this bus incident. He’s a very conscious brother but he still believes a “woman needs to put in her place sometimes”. he thought the punch was justified. *sigh* I love the brother but I couldn’t bite my tongue on this one. So we went at it for a few good minutes. Even a female family member told me–” She was a ghetto hood rat! She should have sat her ass down. You need to respect your elders!” As you can see this is gong to be an uphill battle,Cree. Luckily there are shows like yours and The Cows that can help open the minds of our people. I just want you to know I appreciate your blog and radio show. Keep up the great work.
The struggle continues…….
October 23, 2012 at 11:12 am
@ blackgoddess0
Thanks for the information on that book. I will definitely look it up.
October 23, 2012 at 11:06 am
@ebnflowz
“Many are aware that people collectively all over this planet are waking up including the Black man. One of the major questions if not the question that is on his collective conscious mind is: How necessary is the Black woman to me and my future?”
That’s a very interesting question. I must admit that it does seem like too many black men are deciding a life with a black women is fine with them. Of course my perception may be a bit skewed since I live in California where there are many interracial couples. In my own family I have four male cousins that are in relationships with non black women. And I have three black friends married to non black women. The media has made it the norm to seek out non black women. And brainwashed many black men to see any woman that’s not black has better. As well as showing the “mulatto beauty” as the standard for all black women.
This is a serious problem. I personally think that black women are VERY important to the survival of our race. The black women gives birth to black children. If she goes—so goes the race. And no white,Mexican,Filipina,Korean or Indian woman can give birth to a black child. But if you’re a self-hating black man with low self esteem,it wont matter to you. To have a people try to “mix” their way to being accepted by the dominant culture is not appealing to me. Besides,who would want to have children with their open enemy? Or try to erase your racial identity off the planet? No thanks. I’ll pass.
October 23, 2012 at 8:43 am
ebnflowz, thank you for answering questions 1-5. Very interesting. I suspect that virtually no black males would have would have been ambivalent about Mr. Hughes hitting a any nonblack female who cooperates with/practices with white supremacy and, thereby, aids in white supremacy far more than black females. It is also interesting that you think the media directs “self-absorption” at black females. Black females have a far harder time getting roles in TV and film and are relegated mostly to mammy or slut roles when they get them. Further, though WS focuses its attention on black males and females differently, I know of no evidence that males are targeted more than females.
Dis you understand, question 6? You did not answer it. I will rephrase the question, if a stronger male is spat upon by a weaker female and neither he is no danger of serious physical injury, should he upper-cut her jaw with a punch?
BTW, ebnflowz, the answer you gave to question 2 makes me doubt that you are, indeed a black person. The gauge I use may not be 100% accurate. But, it is nearly so. I only share that gauge with those who are known to me to be black and then only in a relatively secure conversation.
October 23, 2012 at 7:25 am
CREE, I will try to answer questions below:
Q. 1) Are you a black person?
A. Yes. I was born to Black African Jamaican immigrant parents in Southern Ontario, Canada.
Q. 2) If you are, when was the first time you found out that you were a black person and how did you find out?
A. My parents told me who I am from an early age (age 5) and this was confirmed to me upon my entering and proceeding through the white education system.
Q. 3) What is the level of ambivalence of black males toward black females and what is on each side of that ambivalence?
A. I have not measured it and I am not a social scientist but among awake thinking Black men I would say that it is high (>50%) in my personal opinion. To me the question would be: Is the ambivalence a result of ignorance or a deliberate conscious decision. I think the two need to be distinguished because one or the other are being identified as the wrong animal.
On one side I think what attracts most Black men to the Black woman is that he sees her as his natural partner in life. All things being equal I believe most Black men in their right state of mind would choose to be with a good Black woman any time of the day. However we as a people have a protracted history of colonialism, slavery, brutality and social injustice in an alien society to overcome. What some Black men find repulsive about some Black women is their genuine buy in to the system that suppresses all of us. The Black man has many issues, problems, and deficiencies to be sure but for the awake thinking ones who ultimately want to see Black people rise to a better condition I don’t think these men would want to buy into a suppressive system even though they act against themselves at times through ignorance, force and circumstance. Since the Black man seems to be the ultimate target of white supremacy he is not directly offered much kool-aid to drink. It is instead offered to the woman. I think it is the willingness of some Black women to drink the kool-aid which makes up the main part of the other side of the ambivalence.
Q. 4) Assuming that ambivalence indeed exists, why does it seem that many Black females are somewhat surprised at the level and breadth of ambivalence the Black male has towards her?
A. I would think it’s safe to say that it exists. I can only guess why Black women seem surprised. One reason may be the general elevated level of media generated self absorption which has been directed at the Black woman to a large degree over the past 20-30 years. During the same time every attempt has been made to silence the Black man but in addition many have been silent by choice. I think many Black men consciously started to take the ambivalent stance well over a generation ago. Unlike some Black woman in recent years who have very vocal about “withdrawing support”, “trying something new”, “I don’t need a man” etc. some Black men turned their backs years ago without saying a word. The response to the Cleveland video has caused a surprised response by some Black women to a school of thought some Black men adopted years ago. As I mentioned before many of these men are with Black women but are of the same opinion still. I think there was a collective misread of the Black mans current state of mind by Black women.
Q. 5) How necessary is the Black woman to black males’ futures?
A. To me the Black woman is fundamental if Black people as we know ourselves now are to have a future.
Q. 6) Given that no person, male or female, should spit on another person,what should be done when something of that level of assault DOES take place when the offender is weaker female and the victim is a stronger male?
A. This is a complicated question because the specifics of what happened on that bus is being used to ask a general question. However, as you mentioned the driver would have never punched the woman if she was other than Black-agreed. By the same token the woman would have never hit and spat upon the driver if he were white. In the context of the bus if the driver had stopped the bus grabbed the woman by the collar heels dragging on the floor and simply removed her from the bus then reported that he was assaulted to police, I see nothing wrong there. We must look at what made the woman think she could behave this way to the driver in the first place and what made the driver think he could use that level of overwhelming force.
In the general social sense if women were punished by the law equally to men then the man would need to do no more than protect his life and himself from further injury. From what I’ve seen in many jurisdictions especially in domestic situations women have a certain amount of license when it comes to the common assault and battery of men. Many men believe right or wrong that often women walk or get a slap on the hand by the law for a reported offense such as assault on a man. Moreover if he defends himself in a measured way he is still at risk of being charged.
If I were on the street and a woman I did not know hit and spit on me, if I was the better man that day and the situation allowed I might able to walk away and report it. However I believe that everyone has the right to defend themselves with equal and opposite force to the point where the attacker no longer poses a threat whether the attacker be male or female.
As disgusting as what happened in that video is we can’t remain fixated on the event as it manifested itself. The collective state of mind which produced this outcome is what needs to be examined.
October 23, 2012 at 6:44 am
“The answer to your concern LBM is that internal conflict will always exist which one will you give priority to for instance, someone suffering from a headache or someone suffering from cancer? The concern that black female will be terrorized after the domination of WS is a possibility just like there is a possibility for vice-versa. The question for you which chances are you going to take?” Alphax2k
I’m flabergasted by this presentation. So If I’m already suffering from the cancer of RWD it’s no big deal to suffer a headache from an uppercut to my face?
October 23, 2012 at 5:47 am
Yes, ALCHEMIST, what you say is obviously true. I am amazed at how the responses and/or silence on issues of abuse of black females by black males are EXACTLY like those coming from white folks when black people talk about racism (white supremacy).
October 23, 2012 at 5:35 am
Greeting sistars and brothas, Here’s a wonderful book to read; written by a black (non-white, so-called African-American) MALE. It’s called ORHEMAH A cosmic study in her seduction, her mysteries, and her resurrection by NAJ KAMAU. This book proves that in ancient times the black woman was the first deity. Period. Hold on for the ride, for many of your illusions and delusions will be swepted out the window. It’s time to clean house anyway. The black woman was god and still is today, but doesn’t know it. She’s justice, but doesn’t know it. She took a vacation, but now she back 🙂 Peace and Justice. Many Blk MAMA blessings to everybody. May she protect, guide us and give us all strength and courage to work on ourselves, so we can ban together to defeat this horrible monster of RWS and all his relatives. Black Goddess Bless.
October 23, 2012 at 12:24 am
The relationship between BM and BW can be compared to an emotional abusive relationship. He is an excerpt from Deborah Cooper blog”
“Blocking, Blaming, Invalidating and Diverting
Diverting and blocking are techniques used to deny your reality – your feelings, experiences, thoughts and perceptions of people and events. Your version of life is labeled wrong as he demands statistics, books, studies and proof of your thoughts and opinions. If you have none (since after all it’s merely your opinion and you
are a nobody nothing), he feels justified in invalidating everything you think and say.He may refuse to discuss what you feel are problems in the relationship by shutting you out, which communicates that only he has the right to decide what the
conversation will be and when it may take place. He blocks any attempt you make at increasing intimacy between the two of you by preventing open and honest communication.Most emotional abusers will blame their victim for the cruelty they dish out, implying that there is something she did or said that “made” him respond the way he did. When the abuser finds himself in a quandary, he will always find a way to shift the responsibility for his predicament to you, thus blaming you for whatever his problem is.”
http://survivingdating.com/the-emotionally-abusive-black-man-part-2
Some of the male commentators have used this rhetorical devices
October 22, 2012 at 10:06 pm
Definitely on the first and just maybe on the second, too, ALCHEMIST. If that second one goes planet-wide, quicker than black males think, there will be no more black folks to kick around anymore. Non-existence IS better than injustice. There aren’t enough non-black females that will take them and black females are gonna outlast black males in a contest of abstaining from sex. So…..
October 22, 2012 at 9:31 pm
I hate to bring up the tone argument but some of the black males on these thread have displayed a dismissive and condescending attitude toward the black females here,
“Now now little girls calm down. We rational and better informed men folk will tell you what your priorities should be. Get on all fours like a mule and carry our water in order to replace WS with justice.”
I think ebnflowz is correct. I’ve noticed a growing sentiment among black males that black women are replaceable. The black male collective seem to be pondering the question, “Are black women necessary?”.
October 22, 2012 at 7:38 pm
ebnflowz, I would very much like to hear your views as you share your answers to the following:
1) Are you a black person?
2) If you are, when was the first time you found out that you were a black person and how did you find out?
3) What is the level of ambivalence of black males toward black females and what is on each side of that ambivalence?
4) Assuming that ambivalence indeed exists, why does it seem that many Black females are somewhat surprised at the level and breadth of ambivalence the Black male has towards her?
5) How necessary is the Black woman to black males’ futures?
6) Given that no person, male or female, should spit on another person, what should be done when something of that level of assault DOES take place when the offender is weaker a female and the victim is a stronger male?
October 22, 2012 at 7:20 pm
Nothing which happened in that video was right.
I think we need to be conscious observers of media so we take away the correct message and not allow our attention energy pool to be needlessly misdirected.
For me a major take away question would be: Why does it seem that many Black females are somewhat surprised at the level and breadth of ambivalence the Black male has towards her?
This mindset cuts across all Black male demographics regardless of their beliefs about racism/white supremacy. It is what the Black male has NOT said the past 20 years or so about Black female/male dynamics is one thing that needs to be examined.
Many are aware that people collectively all over this planet are waking up including the Black man. One of the major questions if not the question that is on his collective conscious mind is: How necessary is the Black woman to me and my future?
The ignorant will come to non productive conclusions but some of the awake thinking Black men are coming to some of the same conclusions as the ignorant through their own reasoning. Many of these men have internalized their ambivalence as a personal philosophy.
These men have strategically (in their minds) adopted this stance right or wrong. They do not care about the collective well being of Black women even though they may be married/in relationship with one. Some go as far to say that they will cut the path to their self actualization with or without the Black woman.
Being a Black man myself I do not put myself in the camp of the above mindset. My point is it’s very real and needs to be identified, defined, analyzed and discussed or we will have a hard time understanding the outcomes and fallout from events that impact our lives.
October 22, 2012 at 3:08 pm
alphax2k, I will accept your answer at face value but with skepticism. If not true for you, this is certainly not the first time I have seen and been the recipient of “suggestions” by a black male that a black female stop doing something that I have never heard directed at a black male—when one or more males are receiving unfavorable commentary. You have equated the possibility of females terrorizing males with the reverse. I’m sorry, that is not logical. Females simply are not as strong as males. You have also equated black females calling for a cessation in our abuse to “male chauvinism.” Come on. Abuse and defense against abuse are the same thing?
At any rate, you, LBM, and I, and all of the females I can recall weighing in on this topic on this blog all seem to agree that black males and black females need to be unified in order to prevail over Racist Man and Racist Woman. I don’t need an explanation on why black males and black females have a common foe—RM/RW. I have always accepted that as true just as I did in my last response to you. Having common foes, however, does not necessarily make parties allies. I refer back to my asthma analogy and not your cancer vs. headache analogy. Headaches (the minor ones you’re referencing) can’t destroy a person. Asthma, cancer, male abuse, and white supremacy can.
Existence without justice is meaningless. So, I’ll take non-existence over either male abuse or WS.
The risk you propose is far more of a gamble for me, a female, than for you, a male. As a black female, I don’t want to gamble away my non-existence (and that of my great-granddaughters) and be left still with non-justice. You say the other groups are far more predatory. I say that the evidence is only conclusive that black males are a less able predator at present but an unacceptably damaging one nonetheless. For me, it’s all or nothing. And, that, seems to be the lesson that black people, male and female, still have not learned: Existence without justice is meaningless.
I’ll quote Big Jo, too, “You cannot produce justice while violating a tenet of justice”
October 22, 2012 at 2:04 pm
KP, said to blackgodess0, “I think it’s time for the REAL black men to stand up and call out the spineless black men…I personally think that many black men beat up on sistas because they’ve been made impotent by white men. So they mistreat sistas because they’re scared to face the white man head on. To me that’s cowardice.”
I just wanna say….”YES!!!” (even though he wasn’t talking to me.)”
Oh, and KP, the black females that support this bashing…I know that’s the most frustrating of all. When black males start changing their tune, these timid, frightened, souls should find their real voices.
October 22, 2012 at 1:57 pm
I can only offer a suggestion. I used my words carefully. I can not tell you Cree how to run your blog. My intention was never to silence your concerns since I know that I can not do it anyways.
The reason that a common foe is necessary is because confusion is enemy of a revolution. The battle against WS/R would demonstrate black male and females that would sacrifice themselves to prolong our existence. The male and female energy in unison granted are used to overthrow WS/R not each other. To be clear, a black male and black female that are dedicated to each other because they have the same core mission. These black males that have been mentioned and discussed so far are oblivious to that mission and thereby become predatory by nurture. The weak prey upon the weaker. If we do not distinguished ourselves as group, we will fall further prey to groups that do. These groups are far more predatory then these black males laughing the brutalization of black females. The key to justice is balance and today evil in the form of WS dominates the world. There is nothing more balanced than a black male and black female partner in the pursuit of justice.
Finally, the answer to your question Cree is of course I would and have offered this suggestion to black males since male chauvinism would be detrimental in establishing justice and assistance to black females. The answer to your concern LBM is that internal conflict will always exist which one will you give priority to for instance, someone suffering from a headache or someone suffering from cancer? The concern that black female will be terrorized after the domination of WS is a possibility just like there is a possibility for vice-versa. The question for you which chances are you going to take?
October 22, 2012 at 12:05 pm
@blackgoddess0
Now that I think about I do have The Great Blak MaMa of Creation, by Dr. Suzar. I do remember her saying that the Three Wise Men were originally women. I’m not sure about what other Kemetic Gods were originally women and then changed to men. I could be wrong. I’ll have to pull it out and flip through it again. I try to read books from various black authors. I have many books by Dr. Afrika,Jewel Pookrum,John Henrik Clarke,Mwalimu Baruti,Queen Afua,Frances Cress Welsing,Amos Wilson and Neely Fuller. I think it’s important to read books from people who may have a different perspective from your own.I’ve heard of Mama Zogbe. name sounds familiar.I will have to look up her books.
“If you don’t know you have a disease, you can’t heal from it, so let’s not sweep it under the rug and pretend that it didn’t happen or label it “gender war” I’m not a frustrated, angry black woman or hate black men.”
If not a gender war,what should it be called? I just it for lack of a better term. The bottom line is that black men and women have some serious issues to address. You’re correct that we can’t sweep it under the rug. It needs to be dealt with. I’m glad to hear you don’t hate black men. However,in the last few days I’ve seen a lot of tension on Youtube and various blogs. I myself get attacked by some black men for saying this bus driver was wrong. And black women have attacked me also. It’s almost like you can’t win. It gets very frustrating at times. I do think black men need to honor,respect and protect our women. In many regards we’ve dropped the ball. White supremacy has a lot to do with that.And it doesn’t help when black men say this bus driver was justified. I can’t blame sistas for not supporting black men who don’t have your back. I think it’s time for the REAL black men to stand up and call out the spineless black men. I’ve done it with black male friends of mine. And it’s gotten a bit heated at times. I personally think that many black men beat up on sistas because they’ve been made impotent by white men. So they mistreat sistas because they’re scared to face the white man head on. To me that’s cowardice. We should have the backs of black women. I think that’s why we have so many sissified black men today. Beating up on women does NOT make you a man. But when you’re scared to face your real ENEMY–that’s what a coward does.
And I hope this bus incident does not cause anymore division between us. We all have to be responsible for what we do wrong. And face up to those consequences. To say we need healing would be an understatement. I also agree that Christianity, Islam, Judaism has caused much division among our people. I think liberation should be our religion. If a religion doesn’t move us toward justice,freedom and liberation—get rid of it.
Thanks for the reply.
Peace,your brother KP
October 22, 2012 at 10:06 am
alphax2k, I cannot overlook that you, a black male, presume that you can suggest what is written or not written on a black female’s blog. Would you have made this suggestion to a black male? I do not think you would have.
October 22, 2012 at 7:34 am
“You cannot produce justice while violating a tenet of justice”
Big Jo
October 22, 2012 at 7:21 am
Alphax2k – please help me, and I’m asking sincerely, to understand something :
If I am trying to defend myself and my family (including my man) against anti-humans – how long and how effectively can I do that if my man is abusing me?
What has happened in history to make us believe that if we eliminate the terror of white domination, Black women won’t continue to be terrorized on another level?
If Black women who have committed to the struggle against R/WD are saying to the males – WE DON”T FEEL SAFE WITH YOU – WE DON’T FEEL DEFENDED BY YOU – why wouldn’t Black males respond directly to that rather than say “we have a BIGGER problem”, period. Because what we’re trying to get through to you is – Black males will no more solve this problem by themselves or at the same time as Black females are being terrorized, than Black females can solve it by ourselves.
I’m not big on referencing Fuller because I notice how people use his code as a crutch rather than a weapon of inspiration – for instance, most of us quote him to say ‘ well I am a boy, not a man so what do you expect….rather than, I’m currently a boy but I do want to be a man AT SOME POINT in this life????
The issue now is, who is really and truly interested in ridding the world of R/WD? Because it can’t be done as long as there’s internal conflict. The dominators understand this. The dominators use this. the dominators feed this. I would not let any anti-human obfuscate a discussion about their terror, their racism. But among ourselves, we have to handle the internal or we are effectively prolonging the life of RWS.
October 22, 2012 at 2:17 am
alphax2k, how is it in my interest, in the interest of my daughter, or any daughters that she may have to subordinate this lack of regard that black males, collectively, have for black females in order to defeat another group of people who have a lack of regard for us?
No one can prove that the mistreatment of black females didn’t precede white supremacy; nor can one prove this mistreatment didn’t cause a breach amongst black people that allowed white folks to get a foothold against us in the first place. And, even if it could be proved, subordinating black females’ opposition to it in order to focus on Racist Man/Woman/Child is analogous to failing to treat asthma effectively by focusing on the contaminants in the atmosphere that the patient is breathing. By the time the contaminants have been discovered and removed, the patient may be dead or nearly so. Further, if the cause of the asthma has additional causes, those who survived the race to find the contaminant in the air, will still be dealing with their asthma.
I will not be silenced or quieted about the mistreatment of black females by black males to focus on our common foe. For the same reason, I will not be silenced about the mistreatment of black people by non-black people who have dark, straight hair. Black males and these “other” non-black people may view my opposition to their mistreatment as a “diversion” of the oxygen in their canister. I view it as a necessary to save my life.
October 21, 2012 at 11:55 pm
In the midst of the battlefield, we sometime get confused and forget who the enemy is or has become. I agree that enemies are ever evolving but so must our criteria for their recognition and destruction of any predatory behaviour. The better your criteria and discernment will make you closer to achieving and maintaining justice. In the system of WS/R, we must either consider and perform all nine areas of activity very carefully and truthfully.
In addition there something called the 80/20 rule which implies that you only require only 20 percent of the population/effort to control the 80 percent. This struggle will not involve everyone and if we die in a world where WS/R reign supreme then we have failed our mission. I say its time to do some heavy lifting and remove this demon racist man and racist woman off our backs. In the area of war, we always deal with the traitors, predators and cowards in a timely fashion but not when the priority is given to the enemy.
The gender wars are symptoms of diversion and lack of focus. They (racist man and racist woman) should be having them but often they won’t because they benefit from WS. We must redefine manhood and womanhood. We must redefine brotherhood and sisterhood. I suggest that we steer this discussion in this direction by separate blog post so we can become more efficient in replacing RWSWJ.
October 21, 2012 at 7:17 pm
We can backtrack to a time when African men were busy “civilizing” europe while leaving their own land/women unprotected. The same creatures they “civilized” and the hybrids they created with european female attacked their homeland with a vengeance. That’s a discussion we can have at some point.
We can backtrack to a time when enslaved black males raped enslaved black girls to “breed” for white males. It’s a painful thing to think about and black males will ask that we not hold them responsible for what went on -on the plantation – but many never hesitate to imply our rape by white slaveowners was somehow a willing act on our part. The thing is, we can be entered whether we’re sexually willing or not. My problem is how those grown enslaved males got it up to enter 11/12 year old girls. That’s a discussion we can have at some point.
Right now, it is what it is. And what it is is just as it benefits us naught to willingly support anti-humans, it benefits Black women naught to willingly support predators within. It just doesn’t make sense and it doesn’t help the predator to see fit to change his ways. I would make a distinction between “mistreat” and “withdraw support.” I don’t suggest ANY mistreatment between black males and females. I do believe that accepting aid from someone while making little attempt to support,defend, hold high is indeed mistreatment. Our brothas, through many reasons not of their making, need a ton of support. That support has come almost solely from Black women – even too often to our own detriment. As long as we’re feeling unsupported, unprotected, unbeautiful, at the hands of those black males who are living with us but not paying rent/mortgage – eating food but not supplying groceries – traveling in vehicles, driving or being driven, that they are not making the payment on, insurance, gas – receiving health benefits on our plantation “benefits” – receiving our help with previous children(roof over the head every other weekend or child support payments) —any and all forms of support should be “withdrawn” and/or NOT OFFERED in the first place. Anyone should support those who support him/her.
Note: We might want to be wary with holding the “religious” brothas responsible only or even mainly. We have these internet/youtube/lecture circuit “afrocentric” and “nationalist” pimps who have proven to be intensely predatory towards black women. Many have cults of desperate black women following them around the country “supporting” their pimping and confusing sistas by talking against christianty and islam while they prey in the name of
“african religion” or ” spirituality”. Too many sistas are blinded by the 20lb ankhs or mesmerizing oratory. I’d say look out when they start with the polygany talk. Most can’t maintain themselves if some sista is not SUPPORTING them – then they want to turn around and suggest she support their concubine as well. I’m jus’ sayin…the nonsense has to stop. The anti-humans are upping their game and we need to up ours too. As my grandpa would say, Shit or get off the pot.
October 21, 2012 at 1:47 pm
Kushnite Prince you’ve been reading some good books, but that’s not the whole story. There is evidence quite to the contrary of what you’re saying. The vast majority of the male gods of Kmt use to be female. Ptah, Ausar, Tehuti. Read the books i suggested and do some more research. I’m not trying to put black men down or mistreat them, but the proof is in the puddin’. Peace Hotep Goddess Bless. I realize and understand that the white man and woman are our unremitting foe, but we have been contaminmented by this patriarchal virus too. If you don’t know you have a disease, you can’t heal from it, so let’s not sweep it under the rug and pretend that it didn’t happen or label it “gender war” I’m not a frustrated, angry black woman or hate black men. True black men and women treat each other bad equally. But we don’t rape, child marriage, cut black women clits off etc. I think alot of this mistreatment come from patriarchal religions like Christianity, Islam, Judism and the rest of it. Goddess Bless!
October 21, 2012 at 12:52 pm
I want to correct my choice of words. The overwhelming majority of black men. There are many good black men; I don’t want to make a general statement like that, but that has been my experience with many black men in numerous of situations for me, so what’s justice? If we never had justice and never existed, how will we know what it is. I not saying go back to the past and reclaim the matriarchy, but it shows by the historical evidence some of the mistakes of the past which contributed to our current dilemma and how far the black woman has fallen, so when you see a black male bus driver 7 times her size beating the heck out of her; don’t be shocked or surprised. The wheels of mistreated started long time ago. This gender thing has deep roots just like racism white supremacy. Peace
October 21, 2012 at 12:02 pm
@Cree Oh yeah,thanks for the shout out. 🙂
October 21, 2012 at 11:49 am
@blackgoddess0
“The black man’s hatred, jealousy and murder of black women goes back a long, long way to the Nile Valley. They destroyed Her temples and murdered her priestess/priest. Also, they stoled the scared writing and claimed them as their own. The hatred continues worldwide today.”
Hmmmmm……I don’t think that’s correct. In the book Stolen Legacy it proves that the Greeks stole knowledge,wisdom and sacred writing from ancient Egypt(Kemet) and claimed it for themselves. Africans had strong civilizations long before the Greeks or Romans came around. In Kemet they believed in the spiritual system of MAAT. The belief in love,equality and balance between man and woman. The male principle and female principles are supposed to compliment each other. That’s the way it was in the past and that’s what we should be striving towards today. That is,if we want real liberation and justice.
“I say black women should withdraw all support of black men. Stop giving all your time and money to churches, organizations trying to get them outta jail, stop taking care of them, making excuses etc. Guess what? Collectively black men don’t give a —–about any black women even the ones who claim “you my queen’ especially them fake brothas.”
I understand your frustration. I’ve met some fake brothers in my lifetime. But you have to realize that black men have been brainwashed by racism to hate our women. And the same can be said of black women in regards to brothers. We are a people who have seriously been brain-trashed for 400 years plus. What’s happening today is we are blaming each other for our current condition. When we should be pulling together more than ever. I’ve met my share of black women who are loud,ignorant and overbearing. I’ve even dated a few. But I still don’t hate my sistas. It would be very easy to do so. And I would be just like the rest of the brothers saying what the bus driver did was justified. Black men and women both know people that fit the negative stereotypes of our people. Some may even be family members. I’ve had brothers tell me that they’re tired of the sistas with the “ghetto and bossy attitude”. Shidea Lane fits that stereotype perfectly. Having said that,I still was disgusted by that punch. I was disgusted by it! Black people are going to have to change their mindset if we want justice. Black men and women need to find some common ground and END this so called “gender war”. Just dissing each other wont change a damn thing. You are my sister and I know you’re not my enemy. The enemy is the white man and woman. I do see my sistas as “queens”,as you said. But trust me,I’m not one of those fake brothers. As a matter of fact,all fake brothers and sisters can just step aside. And let the people who walk the walk do what the hell we need to do. It’s time to get our minds right and move forward. The bickering will only keep up at a standstill. And I feel we’ve wasted enough time as it is.
Love and Light. KP
October 21, 2012 at 11:08 am
blackgoddess0, you said: “I say black women should withdraw all support of black men. Stop giving all your time and money to churches, organizations trying to get them outta jail, stop taking care of them, making excuses etc. Guess what? Collectively black men don’t give a —–about any black women even the ones who claim “you my queen’ especially them fake brothas.”
—If the word “all” is replaced with the words “overwhelming majority.” then, to me the logic of that statement is, sadly, solid. I am not saying that black females should, in any way, mistreat black males. And, I know that you are not saying that either,blackgoddess0. I am saying that rendering aid is illogical if the objective is justice.
I don’t have a clear understanding of what matriarchy is but if it was a system that did not produce justice, I am not for its comeback. I know of know evidence that justice has ever existed on this planet.
October 21, 2012 at 8:39 am
I agree with you; however, it been more like 6000 years plus since the black woman has been subduded, usurped, and betrayed by her fathers, brothers and sons.
The black woman used to be god. We come from a matriarchial order ,and it was none of this feminist stuff of today, but the original, natural divine order. Guess who became jealous, envious and rebelled against Her? The Black Man.
The black man’s hatred, jealousy and murder of black women goes back a long, long way to the Nile Valley. They destroyed Her temples and murdered her priestess/priest. Also, they stoled the scared writing and claimed them as their own. The hatred continues worldwide today.
“This trend of ramdom destruction they continued so the world would never again know or honor Her, as their Divine African (black or non-white, Nubian etc..) Mother.” It appears the black man made a pac with patriarchy awhile back which didn’t turn out to good for them. Looks like they were dealt the short end of the stick. page 181, Mami Wata, Volume I, by Mama Zogbe (Vivian Hunter-Hindrew). Here’s another good book The Great Blak MaMa of Creation, by Dr. Suzar.
It’s my opinion that we understand how racism, white supremacy and patriarchy walk hand in hand; they’re blood relatives. How it came about I can’t say, but both need to be replaced with a system of freedom and justice. Sometime I feel as a non-white (black) female totally alone. “Ain’t nobody got my back.” Why because you have black women like Wendy Williams who supported the bus driver saying “If you act like a man, then take it like a man” The audience yelled and cheered in agreement! I ‘ll never watching her show again, but I realize it’s not her fault we’re all victims of RWS and just following orders.
My question to any non-white person who think like that is: What does act like a man mean? If I express my opinion or disagree with a black man or seek justice, does that mean I deserved an upper cut? I don’t agree with the way the sister handled herself, but nobody knows what really happened between her and the bus driver. Why did she spit on him, what did he say to provoke such an action?
I say black women should withdraw all support of black men. Stop giving all your time and money to churches, organizations trying to get them outta jail, stop taking care of them, making excuses etc. Guess what? Collectively black men don’t give a —–about any black women even the ones who claim “you my queen’ especially them fake brothas.
There’s my 2 cents, I may be wrong,but right is right and wrong is wrong!
October 21, 2012 at 3:15 am
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